collected and (very little) formatted by addie walti
The start of a thread is on top right below the title
quik question (how do i edit tracks)
DAT file irregularities ?
DProad.jam problems
Disco Fever ( Serious Problem; black
sky )
Question... (trackeditor of vaino iso-hannula)
Placing graphics on fences/walls
2 sided walls
command 0xB7 0xB3
Thanks Iso-Hannula, but...
Pitlane problem (heights)
a2 of oxcc (Adjust Horizon)
Venetian Effect
2 things, Oxe9, and importing
tracks.
Limits :(
cmd 0xe9
Commands 0xEA and 0xEB
Editing Tracks
Editing problem (texture mapping limit)
Posted by warren from 212.140.43.167:
I can desighn a track with gp2 trackeditor but cant race it because objects get in
the way.How can i get round this?
how do i get a cc line?
Posted by wire from 198.96.82.30:
Hi Warren,
It would appear that no one is giving you an answer and that may be because there
are some things you should do first.
1 - get ALL the tutorials made available on the main page.
2 - study them like it's an exam to write.
3 - Experiment, experiment, experiment etc ...
4 - Backup your track, backup your track, backup your track etc ...
You get the idea, I'm sure.
Let us know how your 'studies' are coming along.
Have fun,
wire
Posted by wire from 198.96.82.30:
Hi all,
So I'm a novice C programmer, as well as a GP2 nutcase, and as I was looking at the
original DAT files, I noticed what seems to be an odd thing.
Some of the tracks have 'extra' commands placed AFTER the usual last byte(left verge
value) in the last track section.
They don't show up in either Paul's or Iso's editors, and since one of them at least,
is a 0x...? Scenery Structure command this might go a long way to explain difficulties
at certain tracks.
I will make a list of the tracks and these hidden 'extra' commands tonight and post
tomorrow.
I sure hope I'm NOT seeing things.
Thanks for listening,
wire
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 193.229.159.4:
I noticed these commands almost a year ago. Those "extra" commands are
usually view commands and we didn't found any effect. Those commands were shown in
my editor in some version but because we weren't sure about those commands I removed
that ability.
Those commands may give effect between last and first sector. Happy research!
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 212.90.64.70:
Extracommands in original tracks:
0xcmd: args
Track 3:
82: 137 220
Track 6:
8f: 0 1 12
Track 8:
82: 0 107
Track 10:
82: 0 234
Track 11:
82: 0 125
Track 13:
8e: 0 1 12
82: 0 175
bf: 0 43 175
af: 0 49152 16384
b8: 0 2 0 0 0 0 64236 0 256 0 0 0 0 0
Track 15:
82: 0 187
bf: 0 51 187
Posted by Paul Hoad from 194.203.140.126:
Yes of course, this is becuase some commands
appear before the first
section and some after the
last section
As we always add commands to the section that follows the
commands we are obviously
left with the situation
where those commands on the
end fall off the end.
So we need to make some chances to the TE to handle
this case. All I can think is
to add a dummy section at the end which has a length of -1
and append any remaining commands to this section
Paul Hoad
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 212.90.64.70:
...And I don't see any reason why these extra commands should be used.
Posted by Paul Hoad from 194.203.140.126:
There is no great reason as
most of this can be done by
placeing the command in the
previous section
Paul
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 212.90.64.70:
BTW:
Paul,
If I become inspired and I decide to start programming Windows version of my TrackEditor,
may I use your bitmaps? I mean those little buttons and cmd-identifier-bitmap etc.
That would make things more similiar.
But only if I decide to start that huge project again..
Vaino
Posted by Paul Hoad from 194.203.140.126:
Vaino,
I've seen not only yourself but also others (current interest in GP2 file format)
positioning themselves ready for GP3,
I'm not too interested in people declaring their intentions to me, as I'm sure that
there will be TOO much interest in GP3 for their not
too be a track editor at some time.
I am currently unsure whether I will endeavour to do a GP3 editor, however If I do
try then I would rather work in an open way, that is that we share as much information
as possible. I think Addie and
Martin plus other such as
Babbel will also want to work
this way (as this is how we
made the TE!)
If you choose to borrow aspects (graphical or otherwise
form the GP2 TE) then this will be fine (within reason) as long as you are prepared
to be open with anything you discover. I will likewise return this favour should
I choose to borrow information from others.
I'm really not keen on seeing
a GP3 Track Editing scene falling into the same state
of secrecy that the GPL scene
is in. i.e. a few clever people knowing how and thousands wishing they could have
those tools!
This is my 2p worth.
Roll on July
Paul
Posted by John Edwards from 194.238.50.24:
I have just been doing a Spa 98 track. However, when I change to a another venue
the tarmac road surface "Dproad.jam" screw up, and go' all speckled. What
the bloody hell has happened?
Posted by Rob Huffer from 202.137.80.194:
John,
It could be that the number of bitmaps and the resolution for the texture are different
in the two tracks.
Cheers
Rob
Posted by Herbert Wirl from 131.130.231.20:
Hi all,
I started editing again.
This time i try to keep up the motivation
so i maybe even finish CC-line editing :)
But now i encoutered a crazy problem:
We all know the "disco-lights" error when we mess up the scenery.
and i also see no clouds, but black sky.
Here's what the sanity check shows:
1) too many jam files
2) ID32 JAM missing ( Black sky check I )
Everything else SHOULD be okay.
The track is working, and i've checked everything 4 times.
I just can't find the problem.
Please help me out.
Thanks.
P.S. If someone can help me by
checking the track ... please contact me.
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
if you see but black sky the sky-texture (usually from clouda.jam) is missing in
the jam-list. maybe this is also a result of "1) too many jam files". or
maybe you have a custom texture but with wrong id. see original track for right id.
the 2) failure means you also miss a texture with id 32 which is needed for default
background of the scenery. but you may want to look at this only if you miss something
in the background except the regular sky. (e.g. if you see black parts of horizon
BELOW the sky)
in former postings this problem was discussed, solved a.o. by fat rat. see my forum-posting
collection at: http://www.asit.ch/~addie/tef/index.html
january 2000 issue
i hope its useful information
addie
Posted by Justin from 172.157.1.171:
Does anybody know where I could download Iso's TE? Just wanting to "play"
with it before I start in on a little track layout thingy w/Paul's editor.
Regards,
Justin
Posted by Nobbie from 203.54.58.28:
Hey Justin,
Here is Iso's site... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/5445/
hope this helps,
Nobbie
Posted by Simon Donald from 62.7.171.237:
Hi,
I am currently making a new Kyalami track, but I have run into a problem with placing
textures on fences in certain places. In some areas it works fine, however I have
a problem placing textures/gfx on the left hand wall immediatly after the pit exit.
I can place the textures fine on the pit wall (both sides) and on the piece of the
pit exit wall commanded for by the pit-lane, but what ever I do I can't get the texture
on the wall. I was wondering if anyone else has run into this problem and has figured
out a way to solve this problem?
Thanks
Simon
Posted by Leo from 130.161.23.103:
Most probably the part of the wall you can't texture, is the connection between the
pitfences and the trackfences. (These show up bright pink in TE). These connections
will always get the default wall texture, so you have to change that one. A better
way however is to minimize the 'connecting fences' by placing your pit and track
fences and the 'join pitlane fences' command very carefully.
Posted by J. Whatley from 203.9.148.1:
I was wondering if there is anyway of making a wall two sided so that when you
approach it, it has a reverse side and doesn't appear out of thin air.
John
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
it does not seem possible. maybe one of the remaining loc-codes ? i guess nobody
really checked that out so far !?
however in gp3 its definitely implemented.
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
could be possible ...
location code (type C) is basically a figure 0 .. 65535, and they are decoded up
to some 20 or so, with gaps. so there is still room for the unknown.
les, filou, anybody, did you explicitely look behind the walls when you researched
those loc-codes ?
Posted by Olivier S. from 212.166.36.125:
I was not looking at the other side of fence, and I found no location other than
those in the tutorial that had any effect in the game.
Filou
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 212.90.64.70:
Has anyone made research concerning this command? I found a long time ago that it
has something to do with the pitlane start gradient but what is that scale?
And command 0xB6?
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
i didnt.
and i always wondered about the sense of setting a pit lane start angle and "height".
those values generally are given be the values at the beginning of the hosting track
sector. if the start of the pit lane looks wrong then the pit lane is wrong at all.
and fixing such a problem with those cmds is no solution IMO. but maybe i'm wrong
?
and maybe the discovered features are just side-effects ?
addie
Posted by Woody from 195.44.212.142:
Can anyone tell me the intended function of the 0xb3 command? It seems to displace
the wall texture right to the trackside even in front of any kerbs, but the collision
detection remains where it is set to (ie verge width). It automatically turns off
verges and banks, but not ribbons. The args are:
a1 = always zero? (NOT offset, NOT wall texture separation, NOT window length)
a2 = trackside to affect
(-32767 = left side
16384 = right side
-16384 = both sides
0 = return to normal)
It is not global - inserting another 0xb3 overides the first but not before that
point, so can be switched around without limits over the lap
Well it makes quite a mess so I'm thinking, what usefulness, not in any original
tracks but characteristics seem to parallel with what you see sometimes with (a)
pit fence connections (b) cc-cars overiding fences, maybe something to do w/ GP1
though, works in pitlane so maybe some use there
hope this helps, not sure it will though.
BTW, 0xb7 does have its uses, check out Westwood P(1)
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
woody, all
as for cmd 0xb3. maybe the seen effect is also just a side-effect !? more probable,
the cmd is unfinished (like e.g. cmd 0xad) !? (woody, i hope you dont mind if i include
your 0xb3 description in the next update of the cmdlib ?)
yes, i noticed the 0xb7 in the westwood-track. i recall to have unsuccessfully tried
my luck with making the heights in this track w/o using cmd 0xb7, after les danyluk
also had a hard fight with it. at the end i had to admit the decision to fix it with
cmd 0xb7 seemed to be the only solution so far (which actually reads: still a piece
of the pit lane puzzle missing!).
non-flat pit lane in tracks with non-flat s/f section are always a tough nut to crack.
though with the TE of vaino iso-hannula its remarkably easier to resolve now, as
he considers the starting gradient and altitude of the pit lane in the calculations.
those starting values are equal to those at the start of the track sector where the
pit lane is attached, if the layout and topology of the pit lane is made correct.
unfortunately if the heights are messed, not matching, it looks very confusing in
the game. (if somebody want to follow this subject, the heights-chapter in the pit
lane guide may be from some help)
addie
Posted by Woody from 195.44.146.67:
Addie you're right about the pitlane automatically starting at the same height as
the track so why the use of 0xb7? (apart from correcting errors like at Westwood)?
Well I reckon it was intended as a banking related command (hence not used in originals).
It is correctly used when the pitlane entrance is connected to a banked section of
track - if pits are on the inside then the track has been lowered here due to the
banking (pivoted around its centre I think), but pitlane entrance wants to start
at the height coded in the cum. altitude table (ie track height at its midpoint,
therefore ignoring banking), so will start in mid-air.
So if (i) pitlane is on inside of banked turn = needs lowering = +ve 0xb7 value
(ii) entrance on outside of banked turn = needs raising = - ve 0xb7 arg
As for units, I guess its related to banking strength and track width at that point.
On my Linas-Montlhery track (pitlane on inside) the values are 0xb7 = 8, banking
= 500, track width = 1800
The above effects are true but it seems to work in other ways too, like correcting
slightly bugged pit heights & shapes
Re command 0xb6 (offseting pitlane at an angle without using curved pit sections)
- in the command library it says after a value |300| the angle starts to decrease
again, have to say I don't think this is correct, I find the EFFECT decreases but
not the absolute value, so I'd guess a multiple of an n'th root somewhere; but command
is dodgy after about 30 degrees - causes horrible distortion of pitwalls, so useful
units 0 to 600 = about 0 to pi/4 but with weird progression
Posted by MikaAyrton from 216.244.221.2:
I can see it will take me a lot of time to learn how this program must be used.
So I think it will be better if someone can do it for me.
If you want to do a track based on some things and bitmaps that I can give you, please
mail me to rampiana@sinectis.com.ar
Thanks,
Ramiro
Posted by Paul Hoad from 195.92.194.72:
Ramiro,
it will take you substantially less time to learn how to make a track than it took
Iso-Hannula and I to develop track editors to do so!! :-)
I'm afriad this forum is for people who are willing to go to the effort of making
new items for everyone to enjoy
This takes,time and effort and the results are very rewarding for either those of
us who make the utilities , those who make the tracks or those who simply love to
try other tracks
You may have missed the point about this community
Paul Hoad
Posted by Augusto Dewey from 200.16.224.150:
Hola Ramiro. Bueno, te escribo esto en español porque ando con poco tiempo
para pensar en inglés :-). La verdad es que crear un circuito no es nada fácil
(hasta ahora yo llevo 3), demanda bastantes horas (mas bien días o incluso
semanas) lograr un trabajo mas o menos bueno. Casi nunca se acepta crear un circuito
"a pedido", especialmente si no es un circuito real, es decir uno que solo
vos tenes pensado. Si realmente tenes ganas de aprender vas a tener que tener paciencia,
e indefectiblemente tener cierto conocimiento de ingles para entender los tutoriales.
Cualquier cosa pone un mensaje aca y te digo la pagina donde podes conseguirlos y
darte mas detalles. Saludos
Posted by Simon Donald from 213.120.56.53:
Hi,
I am still having problems with my Kyalami track and especially the pit exit. The
problem is that the pitexit seems to go into the ground and underneath the actual
race track just before the pitlane joins the track and as a result the pitlane exit
looks horrible. I have tried to change the angle of the pitlane so the exit is higher,
but no changes occur. I am wondering if it might be a missing command, but there
is no extra command in the original track that I am editting and their exit is fine.
Has anyone else experienced this problem or knows how to correct it?
Hope someone can help,
Simon Donald
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 212.90.64.70:
Simon,
Do you have not-zero heights in track (between pit entrance and pit exit) or in pitlane?
If yes, the gradient-altitude calculations are more complex than thought. I don't
know can you see in Paul's editor that pitlane end has same altitude as track...
But I suggest you to try my DOS-editor to see are altitudes approximately same. Altitude
is the second red number...
Secondly guys,
When you have problems with your tracks; it would be always easier if you put the
track into web (usually nothing but dat-file) and send URL with the message/question.
Vaino
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
i really recommend the TE of vaino iso-hannula (IHTE) for making non-zero pit lane
heights. only yesterday i again used it to make them in the track i’m currently working
on and that i hope to publish in the next few weeks. it features the worst of all
bad pit lane topologies :) and it has cost me some 15 minutes with the IHTE. i not
even had to test in the game. as soon as the figures in the IHTE matched, the job
was done !
the difference to pauls TE is, the IHTE takes the proper starting values for the
pit lane heights in calculation. so you only have to watch the altitude- and gradient-values
of the ramps (the parts “outside” the pit lane world). those values then have to
match the ones of the appropriate track sectors ...
though if you have banked corners in your track the story may be different (see westwood)
addie
Posted by Derek from 205.200.28.77:
Could someone explain A2 of the oxcc cmd. I checked the cmd library, but am having
trouble understanding.
Thanks,
Derek
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
a2 "rotates" the horizon on the z-axis. i assume you have the latest version
of the cmd-lib (2.7; to get from http://www.asit.ch/~addie/tutus/index.html). please
compare the middle to the lower image in the cmd 0xcc-paragraph. at the lower image
the horizon texture is shifted to the right and this is done by setting a2 to 2048
...
Posted by Derek from 205.200.28.77:
Thanks Addie, I think I have it figured out now.
On a similar subject, how does the track read the horizon jam files, from 512-519,
or left to right, or whatever?
I have been fiddling with the A1 ring, and would like to put in a better horizon.
(larger, better jams etc.)
Thanks,
Derek
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
if you imagine a panorama image standing in the middle of your track, they all show
up clockwise along there number, if i recall correct, but i dont know anymore where
it starts.
you could make a colored upper border in each of the textures with different colors,
so you could identify easily.
Posted by Filippo Toffanin from
212.216.45.138:
Could someone explain me the meaning of the "venetian effect" in the Track
Sanity editor of Paul Hoad's TE? Thanks a lot!
Posted by David Richards from 202.12.71.4:
It is when you get a lot of thin horizontal lines across the screen - like looking
through venetian blinds on a window.
It has something to do with distances of pit start and end from the start of the
track (t0).
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
confirmed.
it may happen if the pit entry (where the "pit lane world" begins) is too
close to s/f (less than 5-10 length units; slot-dependant).
and maybe it also happens if the pit exit is too close to s/f. and maybe it also
happens if your track is very close to the overall length limit.
Posted by Andrew D from 203.109.250.95:
Hey
2 Things
1. Oxe9 command.
I have a strong feeling that this may have something to do with the shadowing underneath
the bridges. They seem to be were ever a bridge is, and when it is raining, the track
under the bridge is dry. Haven't fully gone into it, but i hope it is a start.
2. It isn't that easy to just import track and pit data tables into a track from
gp2. I tried with my Phoenix track, made sure all the pit commands were right, everything,
the sainity check showed only the normal things that were wrong, but the game crashed
underloading. Still don't know why!!!
any ideas??
Cheers
Andrew D
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 212.90.64.67:
I tried to alter Hockenheim to 8.3 km long. The result was crash in GP3. I believe
that there is same limit as in GP2. The other limit to make longer tracks is the
world limit. It seems to be same as in GP2. Good bye Le Mans...
Posted by ML (matti@alphaf1.com)
from 213.173.133.168:
With command 0xe9 you can add textures to the tracks:
Arg 3&9: length
arg 4: texture ID
arg 2: texture location
arg 0: start position to the texture
location 37&39: right verge
location 38&40: left verge
Hope you find it useful...
Posted by Iso-Hannula from 212.90.64.67:
Maybe old news for someone, but:
# 0xEA switches ribbons on.
arg1: offset
arg2: bitvalue
In arg2: bits from 0 to 9 are used to toggle ribbons.
Bit 0 means 1, bit 1 - 2 and so on... if someone is not used to these bit-things.
As you see in TE, there are 4 ribbons to left and 4 to right (+ banks) (Cmd 0xEE).
So total number of ribbon points is 10. Bit 0 switches the most left one and so on.
# 0xEB switches ribbons off.
Arguments are just the same as in 0xEA.
Posted by AndrewD from 203.109.250.95:
Hey
I thought about what i had done with the importing the gp2 track, so i tried starting
from scratch.
I started editing canada, taking it one step at a time. I increased the lenght of
the straight just before and after the old pits hairpin by a lenght of 4 total (2
before and 2 after) and this worked fine.
So i then tried leaving that like that and increasing the lenght of the track and
the first hairpin (2nd corner) by 10 total (5 before and 5 after) and the track crashed.
Either:
1. Geoff was smart and didn't just make a universal track lenght limit, but made
it for each track (unlikely), or
2. Gp3 is extremly command sensitive and you have to adjust each command for any
change in lenght (again unlikely, but thats all i could think of)
I made sure that the start and end of the track were in the same positions.
so i dont know!!!
CHeers
ANdrew D
Posted by maiden from 212.216.35.21:
I'm building a fictious track. I'm putting scenery textures, but after moreless 45
sections of the track the textures I apply aren't the ones you see when driving the
track (in the case every part, from hills to verges is covered with a fence-texture).
Does someone know hot to solve the problem? Have I used too many textures commands?
Thanks,
maiden - tourette@tin.it
P.S. you can answer directly to my e-mail if you wish.
Posted by addie from 194.191.82.13:
as far as i recall there is said to exist a limit of texture-mapping cmds in a track.
somewhere around 200 ?
all hills covered with the same texture ? have you used cmd 0xc8 ?
and one more thing, if you map a texture to a certain location, say a scenery ribbon,
be sure the whole section you want to map onto is actually switched on. e.g. if the
ribbon is switched off after a length of 10 and you map a piece of length of 11,
nothing at all gets mapped.
i hope it helps
addie
Posted by Paul Josephson from 12.75.151.80:
I have 221 0xbc Texture Mapping commands in my recently revised Elkhart Lake track,
and it works fine. I recall starting to have problems when it was something like
223, so I'm close to the limit. When it was about 223 or over, some textures turned
grey at the of the track as if they didn't exist.
end of list