Forum Postings 1998 July

(thank you goes to martijn keizer, who collected them for me when i was in the holidays)


Threads

Jam Editor and Jam Id's
CC-Line trouble

My track works in practice but not in quickrace
Something strange
Catch Fencing

track id's, i just found something
Transparent colour
Inserting/replacing JAM
Cmd 112
Scenery commands

Change Jam ID, transparence?
Preliminary hidden texture list (long!)
Monaco Problems read first
Flickering Horizons ?
another unk de-unked: 0xdb

The Sanity Check
444 km/h (275 MPH) is GP2 Limit???
I found something
Pit Entry & Exit
Palette code

Black flags in the pitlane
CC Unkown 1

Index

Jam Editor and Jam Id's

jason hope from 206.172.204.135:

what I forgot to mention was that I'm nolonger using the bushes.jam, and therfore used their Id's that are no longer used in my track.
Jason Hope


John Verheijen said the following:

I forget to say that if yo change he ID's make sure that no other jam is using the same ID.

John Verheijen said the following:

You don't have to change the ID's of the ftrees, dtrees or bushes jams, because they have all different ID's.
Changing ID's is only needed when you have double ID's.
Regards
John Verheijen


Jason Hope said the following:

Hi all,
I was wondering why when I change the Id of a jam to fit into my track, the game freezes. What I did was replace the jams I wasn't using with the jams I plan on using (extra wall textures, very very realistic.) I used the Id's that were being used by the jams I replaced, and in this case, I used the Bushes.jam. I used 12 Id's from that jam to use for my jams.
What's going on, I can't go on without these jams. Please help
Jason Hope



Index

CC-Line trouble

Ripping from 209.76.151.234:

On Monaco based tracks there is a lot a CC sections with unk commands such as '80' and '112'.
With the CC lines I have done, these UNK commands have been removed (i.e. set to '0') with no ill-effects.
I have no idea what the different UNK commands do, but like i say it seems you can do without them.
And remember to check the scale if you cannot get a tight enough line....for 90% of corners the scale should be 1. Increasing this scale to 2 or 3 (-2, -3 for turning left) increases the radius of the cc curve (makes it less tight), good for those gentle curves.


Auke Haarsma said the following:

I useally reduce the section before the 112 cmd with 1 length. Next I set the 112 section to 1, and continue my work.
About 112, I think it is a sort of overtaking line! More info will follow.


Eike J. Umlauf said the following:

Right now, just solved the "leave track" phenomenon. It happens with cc line sections with the command 112 in it. Only problem is, how do I change the command to the usual value of 80? Or do I have to remove this section entirely?


Eike J. Umlauf said the following:

Got a huge problem with the cc line, too.
If I drive it, it heads all right for some time, until it suddenly takes a sharp right bend off the track at a certain point.
I wouldn´t mind creating a cc line if it would work properly after some hours of work, but it´s impossible with this track, no matter what I try.
I´ve encountered this problem at an Estoril and a Jerez based circuit, always in a right-hand corner. Any idea how to solve that? Perhaps there´s a wicked track command in the section the cc line goes all wild?

Besides, where has the CC line-tutorial gone? It´s not on the tutorials page anymore.


Romeo said the following:

Yes, I know what you meen. The CC-line looks right in the editor - but not in the game. But that also meens that a correct CC-line look wrong in the editor (see the original tracks).
Romeo


Wouter Oosterbosch
said the following:

No, I meant in the game ITSELF.


Romeo said the following:

This is a known (and big) problem. The CC-line doesn't show up correct in the editor, therefor creating a good CC-line takes a lot of time
- you have to do one sectoin at a time, making a slight sdjustment, checking it in gp2, changing a little more, and so on...
Paul is working on this problem, and others are trying to figure out a way to make a tool that creates a good CC-line automaticly (the CC-line project - see http://gp2.com)

Also check out the tutorials at http://cam.ca.tin.it/GP2/trackedit/ for more help.

Good Luck, and welcome to the world of CC-line editing... :-)
Romeo


Wouter Oosterbosch said the following:

Hi to all! I am working on my first real track (Racing Ring) and I have some problems with the CC-line. I can't get it on the road, even when i choose create CC-line ( middle of road), It doesn't go right. If I set distance to center 0 or 32000, it makes no difference. Can anyone help me?



Index

My track works in practice but not in quickrace

Andrew D from 203.36.35.11:

i have been having the same problem with the track i am devising. It is based on Monaco and whenever i change the Mwall2.jam to one of the wall textures in PLK's Mexico track, it doesn;t work. however there is no jam id confliction. Unfortunatly i haven't come up with answer yet and it is driving me nuts too. It is definatly to do with the file just being there casue when i removed the file it worked, but when i removed the wall texture commands with the file still there, it worked fine.

Also, does anybody know what the file at the end of the monaco jam file list is. And does it have to be there
AD


Martijn said the following:

I don't remember who it was, but with the problem I had some time ago, it was suggested that the differences lie in the "crowd" texture, the game shifts some ID's to get the grandstands filled, and that messed up the JAm iD's. The problem occured on my track (portugal based) when replacing the por_ad2.jam with the mza_ad2.jam. I tried that because of a larger amount of usable jamentries, but it caused the described problem. So it may be a problem with double ID's or with a different JAMsize.

Hope this information is any use to you
Bye
Martijn


Graeme Nash said the following:

Well,
On testing in quickrace mode, the track didn't work.

I tested to see if track length was too much - I shortened it from 7.2km to 6.2km but the problem still remained. I then noticed that were conflicting textures. I didn't really note down the details but I noticed that the clashes were caused by verg280.jam and monaco22.jam. I removed them and the track worked. I think the problem was that perhaps in practice mode some of the "track startup" data such as jam files was not necessary, whereas it was in quickrace. I'm not sure though!


Paul Hoad said the following:

Could you summarize here what went wrong!
perhaps this is something that I could put into some sort of validation stage!

Talking of which......

I've been thinking of adding this for some time but its more about what are the rules......

Could we start a list here of what rules are needed for a valid track, I can then add a validation check option into the editor and then we can start to grow the things that can be checked....

ok so I'll start the list off

1) A PitEntry Command 0x86 is needed
2) A PitExit Command 0x87 is needed


Graeme Nash said the following:

Yes, Martijn, JAM ID's were the problem. But it seems I'm not to blame! To get the track to work I had to remove verg280.jam and monaco22.jam from my track. I han't touched them yet they were causing the conflicts. Strange...


Martijn said the following:

Hi
The problem is, I think, due to some JAMs you have changed. Try to set the custom jams you added to the originals and see if the problem is fixed. If not, it's something else...,
Good luck
Martijn


Graeme Nash said the following:

I have been working on a track and it is coming along very nicely with some good scenery. But the game freezes on loading the track when I try a quickrace! It works fine in practice mode though. Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this?

Cheers,
G

Index

Something strange

Roe lVerwer from 143.179.134.103:

Thanks!


SNQQPY.Dog said the following:

This is occurs because there are two Camera Height settings and both work independently of each other.
This is explained in the Camera Tutorial and is quite descriptive in the Camera Editor v1.6x.

Height(Race Mode) effects Height in every mode in GP2 EXCEPT 'Practice any Circuit'
Height(Practice Circuit) effects 'Practice any Circuit' mode only.

Therefore if you set both these values the same then the camera views will be from the same height in EVERY mode.

Hope this helps

BTW If you haven't got the latest version of TED I stongly suggest you get it. From a camera editing point of view there are may more facilities available to make the process much easier. Also you can find a very good tutorial on this subject on Paul's Tutorial page - only I forget it who wrote it!

Cheers
David"SNQQPY.Dog"


Roel Verwer said the following:

Hi all,

I created a track. I also eddited cameras. When I do a quickrace the cameras a right. But When i practice on my track the cams are wrong. The height of the cams are different than.

Can someone please tell me what's wrong?

Index

Catch Fencing

Paul Hoad from 194.222.192.203:

Could it be possible that I could add some sort of defualt settings to scenery to actually produce this across a track section!

I have to admit I'd like to the wall used for tyres with the catch fencing a tyres width behind it! or if your feeling Artictic & Historic how about some straw bails and perhaps some race fans standing behind

so use the walls for the straw bails and a ribbon for the people! should help give some real 3D feel!


Martijn said the following:

It is indeed possible to use ribbons to map a fence texture on it. Since you still have the wall, the effect is nearly the same, and it enables the slightly bended fence you mentioned. There are three disadvantages to this approach however;
1) most people don't know how to use scenery-ribbons, as it is complex matter, I have been told
2) you can't use the ribbons any more for other nice things like lakes, tunnels or grandstands
3) there is no good usable fence texture in the standard JAMs, only ID112, and that is a very pixellated texture, too small to use. So a custom jams is needed anyhow.

If we only work around these three problems, this solution to catchfencing is better, since it enables a catchfence that is a few meters behind the armco.

Bye!
Martijn


alfa said the following:

This is something I keep meaning to look at. As I recall, current "catch fencing" technology requires a custom jam file.
Those of you who know me well, know that I am adverse to custom jam files, so my plan is to be *very* experimental with existing textures such as the (number 111??) scaffolding for grandstands. Placed with appropriate repeat values, lightness alteration, rotation and height onto a suitable scenery layout (with the little bit at the top that comes back in to prevent people climbing over), I think it can be done. Just a matter of getting the right values for the parameters. I'll do it oneday, I know I will.

P.S. Now that I've started playing around with altering the shape and textures of internal objects (such as cranes, pit buildings, flyovers), I'm having slow success, but I'd love to know if anyone is working on a tutorial.
Its good stuff. Need a tree that is 5 times as high as any available? Just resize and map a tree (ftrees.jam) onto that CAMPARI advert board you arent using.


Phil Paterson said the following:

Is there or will be a tutorial for creating catch fencing???
Thanx....


Fat Rat from 24.112.113.211:

"Re: Catch Fencing..... (To Alfa)& Addie" was posted by

Addie , maybe Martijn has or can confirm ?
cmd Oxaa definately scenery ribbon cmd ,

It was in ts o with a1=0 a2=6 a3=7 a4= 6656

this cmd effectively turned off both ribbons 12&13 right & left .

May also be conected with the Oxac cmds
Not sure on these yet , I also removed them from TS 0 with no noticeabile effects ?

Let's nail down these last unk's
Thanx
Les

Index

track id's, i just found something

Andrew D from 203.36.35.11:

when i was editing my track that was based on monaco, i was having the problem of it not working in quickrace, but alright in practice. I inserted the custom jam over the top of one of the files that had the id's around 60. I then changed the custom jam id's to match and it worked, all bar the jams were coming out really distorted along the walls. I then changed the id's of the custom jams back, and it worked alright until i put two many into the track side senery, and the original started to go distorted again.
hopefully that is some help

ad

Index

Transparent colour

Graham D from 194.125.2.232:

The colour is already in any of the transparent one if not it's not a transparent .jam so if it's there just use the dropper tool to copy it.
Hope this helps.


Paul Hoad said the following:

It's also the XY pos (0,0) in the car jams I think!


Romeo said the following:

I think the transparent colour is the first colour in the GP2 palette (#0 or #1). It's a greenish color. Just use it, and see if it works!
Romeo


Avatar said the following:

Because nobody answer my question, I ask again:
How to make transparent jams? With transparent colour. What colour I have to use?
-Avatar-



Graham D from 194.125.2.232:

Some jams allow transparentsy.If it already contains that greenish colour it is trasparent in the game (tress and bushes mostly)otherwise it is not tranparent and will be black as you said. The only thing to do with a monaco track is to use the individual trees files like clumps 1, clumps 2, dtrees, and so on because you can't add many .jams to a Monaco track.

Avatar said the following:

I've tried the colour from other transparent jams (greenish colour), but in the game it's not transparent, but black. I'm editing a Monaco based track, so maybe this cause the problem, I don't know. But I've got to do something !
Can't somebody, who made a track with transparent jams, based on Monaco, help me ?
-Avatar-

Index

Inserting/replacing JAM

Graeme Nash from 193.237.91.221:

As anyone who has tried this will know, it's a very hit-and-miss thing. But today I found that by REPLACING a jam
with your desired new one, and then INSERTING the original, it works virtually every time!

Sorry if that's been bought up before, but I just thought I'd mention it!

Index

Cmd 112

Auke Haarsma from 195.121.20.118:

Different driver styles... I had not yet thought about it. If cmd 112 is a different driver style, then why is it only at the end of a turn? I would expect differend approaches to the corners, not different acc. out of the corners! And why is it at Monza only at the end of the first chicane, and not at the Parabolica?

How do cc pass competively? Sometimes their decisions to overtake seem to come from black magic ..:) (as you said) I don't think it is related to the cmd 112. Probably one of the other unk values. But I don't think that is the case either. I think the cc looks ahead, to see if there is room in front of the cars. Cause you need to look ahead when overtaking, is there room etc. since you're travelling at some bloody km/h. So if we stop a few meters before a corner, the cc won't overtake, cause there's no room. (There is! 'cause we're standing still, but the cc looks to the room keeping in mind it is driving a normal (high) speed. In the time it weaves besides you it has traveled a certain distance already (that's what the cc thinks!, not what really happens, we're standing still!!) and therefore if probably thinks that the available meters are not enough, see?)

I don't think the overtaking code is encoded in the dat files. I think there's one genal code which is the same for every track.
Cheers,
Auke


Bob Culver said the following:

Your theory on the line for slower cars seems to make sense. Another idea might be that the different lines are for different drivers style. Maybe the cc carsets are coded to follow different lines through the corners. Another possible method of creating different performance characteristics other than the car values (HP, grip, etc.). I seem to recall that the GP2 advertising pitch was "different driver characteristics". Since it appears that the 112 command isn't a passing line, then a new question might be, how do the cc cars pass competitively? There are certainly locations where they won't pass no matter how slow you drive in front of them until you get out of the way, but there are other places that they'll dive in and take your front wheel off. Maybe the alternate cc line is a "catch line". Probably unlikely since turn 1 in Brazil doesn't have a 112 command and the cc's do pass there quite effectively.


Auke Haarsma from 195.121.20.118:

You're right. When making tracks I avoid the cmd 112 in corners. It works is straight sections as a cmd 80 but in
corners it is rubbish. That's why the cmd 112 page has been added to the CCLP, we need to understand what the cmd
112 is doing. Has anyone got an explaination for this (cdm 112 not working in our tracks, but is does in original gp2
tracks?
Auke


Ripping said the following:

Interesting. While working on the cc line for Circuit Ultima,
I came across some problems getting a valid CC line on the
track. You drive to the problem section and the CC line just
goes haywire and will not follow what you enter as the curve
in the editor. Now going back into the editor these 'problem'
sections were red highlighted CC sections (cmd 112).
Deleting these cmd 112 sections and using a standard cmd 80
section caused no problems and I could edit the cc line as you
would expect to.


Auke Haarsma said the following:

Hi,
I've added a page dedicated to the cc-line cmd 112.
Please check it out at www.gp2.com/cc-line.
Thanks,
Auke

Index

Scenery commands

Fat Rat from 24.112.113.211:

And Cmd ( 172 ) Oxac seemed to Block out ( turn off 12 &13 ) in was in sec 0 , after I took it out my ribbons poped up right where they were programed
CU
Les



Bob Culver said the following:

Don't know if someone has mentioned this before (didn't find it in the tutorial either) but it seems that the Oxda command turns off ribbon 13 and the Oxdo command turns off ribbon 12.

babbel from 194.178.9.149:

try to connect scenery by placing the 0xba command in the track sections , I have no idea if it works but the command does something simulair, it's also possible that this command can be used to make the scenery a perfect turn, so that it follows the track and it doesn't go straight on.
babbel



Bob Culver said the following:

Have you tried adjusting your last track segment length to zero?


Graham D said the following:

I want to ask if it is possible to bridge scenery or add scenery to the last track section. Also with command turns off ribbons and what values do I use.

Index

Change Jam ID, transparence?

SNQQPY.Dog from 194.168.58.198:

Hi
I think that Gp2edit expects the bmp to match the jam file size of the original. In Pauls Jam Editor he has discovered that the x,y dim can be changed and so he has taken advantage of the facility. This means that you must use Pauls JamEd, but some problems exist with it and I know he's working on it.Don't forget that JamEd is a program in development so you can experiment.
Hope this helps

David"SNQQPY.Dog"


Avatar said the following:

Gp2jam can't convert some of the jam files in bmp files.


Patrese said the following:

After using the Jam Editor to change the ID, transparent, width..... value of the jam file and saved it, I cannot convert the jam file to bmp file by gp2jam. Why? Can somesone help me?

Index

Preliminary hidden texture list (long!)

Paul Hoad from 194.222.192.203:

To try to help this I've added 3 jams automatically to the jam list now

roadsgn.jam
stands.jam
crowd4.jam

These will not be added to the jam list at the end but do appear in the tree, jam index and texture chooser!
Are there any other jams i should add?
Paul hoad

Graeme Nash from 193.237.91.221:

Hi all,

This is the preliminary list of textures from JAMS in the gp2\gamejams directory, most of which are not shown in the texture chooser but which can still affect a track (especially in quickrace) as they apply to other textures in the track such as cars.
So if you can keep all your JAMS from clashing with these IDs and those which are specific to the track you are working with, you should be OK. And my early research shows that GP2 may allow you 5 or 6 clashes before a crash occurs. Not sure about that though!


JAM TEXTURES WHICH CAN BE, OR ARE, HIDDEN IN THE TEXTURE CHOOSER:

2, 5-7, 15-17, 19-22, 25, 32-35, 42-66, 69, 96

107, 111-113, 116-122, 163 165-187

225, 226, 256-299

300-321, 331-399

400-404, 411-415, 426-464, 477-480

528, 531-572, 577-599

600-699

700-786


Paul Hoad

I found these in the exe!

gamejams\rcr1.jam.
gamejams\rcr2.jam.
gamejams\rcr3.jam.
gamejams\rcr4.jam.
gamejams\rcr5.jam.
gamejams\helmets1.jam.
gamejams\b1rtr.jam.
gamejams\b2rtr.jam.
gamejams\b1ftr.jam.
gamejams\b2ftr.jam.
gamejams\cshad1.jam.
gamejams\williams.jam.
gamejams\ferrari.jam.
gamejams\mclaren.jam.
gamejams\ligier.jam.
gamejams\lotus.jam.
gamejams\benetton.jam.
gamejams\sauber.jam.
gamejams\jordan.jam.
gamejams\tyrrell.jam.
gamejams\footwork.jam.
gamejams\larrous.jam.
gamejams\minardi.jam.
gamejams\simtek.jam.
gamejams\pacific.jam.
gamejams\pitprop1.jam.
gamejams\pitprop2.jam.
gamejams\mpush.jam.
gamejams\pc-wheel.jam.
gamejams\pc-jack.jam.
gamejams\pc-extr1.jam.
gamejams\pc-extr2.jam.
gamejams\fuel.jam.
gamejams\roadsgn.jam.
gamejams\flags1.jam.
gamejams\chequ1.jam.
gamejams\flagcheq.jam.
gamejams\spgrid2.jam.
gamejams\damage.jam..
gamejams\crowd4.jam..
gamejams\stands.jam

Paul


Graeme Nash said the following:

Does anybody know/have a list of the "hidden" JAM IDs in GP2? By this I mean the textures that apply to every track, but don't show up in the texture chooser, such as 35 (crowd texture) or 111 (Transparent fence).
I believe this would help avoid clashing JAM ID's that crash tracks when using the JAM Editor.

Cheers,
G

Index

Monaco Problems read first

Andrew D from 203.36.35.11:

remove everthing last, dont worry if there are track objects overhanging the track, that can be cleaned up later, but just make sure that your track runs alright first, then remove each thing one at a time, then try running your track in both quick race and practice modes.


Andrew D said the following:

Yes, remove what you can except for the secnery and track commands, this can casue some real problems too!!.
It is really funny what i found out this afternoon. I was just finishing off the tracks objects and about to start on the cc-line. I decide to use the create cc-line command and this caused the track to crash dduring loading, but when i reseted the cc-line, it was fine again. i can't tell what the actural problem was there and if somebody could help me out it would be appriciated


Aub said the following:

Hmm, do you think I should try removing the textures, kerbs and reset the cc line like you did, before I start editing it? Or was that something you did afterwards?


Andrew D said the following:

i based my phoenix track (to be released soon) on monaco, and i haven't had any problems. When i first started i used the pull down menu for removing all sencery, and that casued it to crash, so i left it in, but when using v1.6.4's sencery remove it works fine. I also removed all the textures, kerbs and reset the cc line. I have added in the new textures, but i have had no problems lately in practice or quickrace


Aub said the following:

Nope, I'm sure it's nothing like that. I narrowed it down and I'm sure it happens when I change the length or radius of certain sections. I tried it without changing anything else and I tried it after removing all the objects and I get the same result either way.
I also tried it on a flattened track.


SNQQPY.Dog said the following:

Hi Aubrey
If you have altered the track, have you set any kerbs at zero?
David


Phil Paterson said the following:

I've tried making a track based on Monaco and that crashes all the time too!!!


Ripping said the following:

it could be a track sector or CC line section whose length is '0' ?

BTW (Fat Rat & everyone), sometimes theres a 24 hr delay before posting new editors at my site depending on my work schedule, but they always get there eventually.


Aub said the following:

Nope, all I've done so far is change the shape of the track.


Fat Rat said the following:

sounds like a texture applied incorrectly ?
Maybe a texture Id at zero , or an ID placed onto a removed wall ?
Or a bad jam file or texture ?
either of these 3 usually crashes most tracks , with I think a divide by zero error , or a Bad print error is the other common error message , you know the one you wipe away with the curser ?

Hope this helps
CU Les


Aub said the following:

Sorry if I'm a little behind. I haven't been reading this forum lately.
Does anyone know how to avoid all the nasty crashes and divide by zero errors when changing the shape of the Monaco track? I just can't figure out a system to it.
I've almost got the shape finished, but there's certain sections I just can't get right because of the crashes.
Anyone?? Thanx.



Index

Flickering Horizons ?

Bob Culver from 171.72.5.14:

It should work. You may have to experiment on the exact setting (I think Peter had to go to 4000 or something; I had to go to 19000!)


James.I said the following:

Hi all
I saw on the forum a few weeks ago a message from Peter L Kessler about raising the whole track in height, as a whole. He said something about the stuff under the horizion flickering, and raising the track might solve it. Is this true? I'm having this problem with a track, and I just wondered if some would clarify some things for me?
Thanks
JI

Index

another unk de-unked: 0xdb

Paul Hoad from 194.222.192.203:

Ok it is so!
"Switch pits/track drawing order"
Paul


addie said the following:

... i mean, in case my formulation sounds like swiss-english :)


addie said the following:

how about
switch pits/track drawing order
(or a similar formulation in proper english :)


Paul Hoad said the following:

How about
Switch Pitlane/Track Scenery Priority


Paul Hoad said the following:

Got a simple name for this one addie so I can drop
it into the editor
Paul


addie said the following:

another unk de-unked (at least halfway): 0xdb
(or as snqqpy.dog would call it: another one bites the dust)

0xdb defines the sequence of drawing track- and pit lane scenery gfx. this cmd can be found (only) in the original spa-track f1ct11.dat in t0. in spa you have a hairpin immediately following the s/f straight and after that another straight (towards eau rouge). enclosed in these two straights there is the pit lane, the pit building in particular. it seems like the gp2.exe normally draws first the pitlane scenery, then the regular track scenery (covering appropriate part of pitlane scenery). so in our case the trees of the right side of the straight after the hairpin would become pasted over the pit building. but here comes 0xdb.

0xdb seems to tell the gp2.exe to switch the sequence of drawing there. its parameter seems to be (once more) an offset into the sector. so with a 0xdb, the gp2.exe first draws the regular track scenery beyond 0xdb, then the pit lane scenery, then at last the track where you are standing, if you are standing before the cmd 0xdb.

you can check this easily by removing the 0xdb in the original spa track and then have a look at the pit building, standing in the middle between s/f line and hairpin. (drop me a line if you would like a screenshot of this).

another effect can be seen, when looking from the track into the pit exit ...

but here it needs some more experiments (any volunteer?)

summary:
you just need the 0xdb when you have a layout of track and pit lane similar to spa. in all other cases do remove it (and save a lot of troubles) !

enjoy
addie

Index

The Sanity Check

addie from 194.191.82.13:

i guess it should read:

T12 0x87

instead of

T12 0x83

thanks anyway
addie


Michaël 'NRG' Hompus said the following:

Because many people don't understand what it does
I will try to explain.Paul asked a few times which codes were nescesery (Sorry for my English) to have in a track and still GP2 can work with it.

I took Hockenheim and removed code for code, first the objects, then the kerbs, and so on...

At the end there were 8 codes left.

T12 0x83
T61 0x86
P 0 0x9b
P 4 0x9f
P10 0x96
P12 0x89 (other tracks also 0x88)
P16 0x97
P19 0xa0

If you remove one of them Gp2 will crash,
no exceptions.

So Paul created the 'Sanity-check' when you run this option it will check if these codes are put in the track.
Paul added also the 0xa1 a2 a3 and a4 altough it works without them, why not :)

So do you all understand.

Maybe Paul added other checks, but that is his little secret ;)

Greetinx Michaël 'NRG' Hompus



Index

444 km/h (275 MPH) is GP2 Limit???

Knuckles from 203.19.238.8:

One of the problems I did come accross with lowering the air resistence is that it seems to only effect the human car rather than the CC cars.
The difference between the two can be dramatically seen if you do a multiplayer race and watch the other human cars when under the control of the computer.
This accounts for the lower performance of the CC cars which is why in my documentation I recommend increasing the power for the CC cars to compensate for this.
I do not recommend changing the CC setup to match the human controlled car for this reason (If you try you will notice the CC cars can't get into top gear).
Regarding fuel consumption, this may well be a result of what power you have given to the CC cars. If you follow the recommendations in the documentation you shouldn't have problems with running out of fuel.
(I did quite a bit of testing on this one) If anyone is having problems with fuel consumption could they please mail me with details of the length of race and in particular the number of laps being attempted by the human controlled cars on one tank of fuel. (For the standard 80 lap race my testing had criteria that they had to be able to run 48 laps on a tank of fuel).
The fuel consumption for the human controlled car is a little less and will allow for a few extra laps (by turning off the pit indicator).


Fat Rat from 24.112.113.211:

And I guess a spellchecker for the TE forum , form ?
Sorry it's late & a bit punch drunk from all this editing . and still doing some paper work and other programming projects
Nite
Les


Fat Rat said the following:

As suspected , my current Wistow car set up is topping out @ 247 mph , onlt faster in a draft or tow .
But I don't complete too many laps , with this setup . Just a little bit loose in the ass end .

But this does present a minor CC setup , As I try and give the CC Cars the same setup as the car I run .
But as usual I'am a couple tics facter than the competition .
Brett if your reading this ? or anyone else . who races wistow .
Still Feul loads & with the 1st cc line testing I have noticed .

That the top speed of the CC Cars on the speedo in thier Cpits are lower than the race results screen's " average speeds " for the same drivers . Sorry guys can't remember if my speed was increased or not .

Brett the 1st tries at the cc line , the feul usage is totalling opposite . On your version I find most other cars out of feul at race end , On my 2.31 miler , we' re all carring extra feul at race end ??

( I'am not sure what racing lengths I was running .)
Somewhere around 38 - 40 laps .

Hey mate looks like I need a Canadiegin to Aussie dictionary ? eh . pip pip Esquire

Tutles
Les hehehehe


Phil Paterson said the following:

Last night, I was trying to find the max. speed of GP2, so I modified Wistow Superdrome to 0 air resistence, 0 wing at front and rear, max gears and max power (1579 bhp) and my max speed was 444km/h (275 MPH) and I have got a feeling that 275 MPH is the GP2 max speed......

(If you want the car or replay of this GP2 World Record (!) mail me....)





Index

I found something

Bob Culver from 153.35.215.4:

A question for Mal; When you are changing how the cc line enters the corner, are you going exactly parallel down the straight before the turn each time? What method are you using to adjust the approach? If you are sure that you are exactly parallel, then Grahame may be on to something. I still think that the angle of origination formula + track width formula "bugs" must also be contributers. We still can't get the TE to display the cc line as it really is made (other than down the center), and a lot of the distortion doesn't show up until after quite a few turns.


Graeme Nash from 193.237.91.221:

Just a thought, has anyone looked at the CC-Line unknowns in the CC line part of the track config? I checked them out -very- briefly last night and I have been too busy to go back to it since. From my 5 minutes of research it seems that the 4th unk has something to do with the position/rotation of the CC line relative to the track.


Mal Ross said the following:

Just to clear that up... ignore my second paragraph in my previous post. I was talking rubbish. (If the cc-line curve is shallower on the straight track sections then I should be able to take them more easily) The reason I swing out too far on my track is due to a change in gradient.

As for the first paragraph - I stick by it.

Mal.


Mal Ross from 193.237.112.166:

OK, here goes. When the cc line enters the corner track section closer to the outside of the corner, the cc-line will pass through a greater distance of curved track than it will when the cc-line enters nearer the inside of the corner. Maybe the length of the cc-line is curved slightly more when it is passing through a curved track-section than when it is passing through a straight track section.

This reflects what I have noticed at the exit of turn 2 of my Hanborough track - as soon as the car is no longer within the curved track section, the car is less able to take the remaining curve of the cc-line (making it feel as though you are being drawn toward the outside of the track. This may be purely a coincidence, but the theory on cc-lines being more curved whilst in similarly curved track sections may be true.... Possibly. ;-)

Mal.


Auke Haarsma said the following:

Hi Folks,

Remeber I said the cc-line was conneted to the track (one way or another)?
I figured this out:
A track, with the first corner going to the right. (The track arc= 90 degrees)
The cc-line, exactley in the middle of the track has a certain radius. The cc-line turns for 90 degrees, just like the track.
Now, nothing has changed (radius/length is the same, track is the same) but the position of the cc-line on the track.
The cc-line is a bit left of the middle, then the cc-line turns MORE than 90 degrees, as if it has less radius BUT the radius is the same!
The cc-line is a bit right of the middle, then the cc-line turns LESS than 90 degrees, as if it has more radius BUT the radius is the same!

I also found that the more the cc-line is away from the middle of the track, the more it is out of line.
E.g. (continuing with the track above.)
If the cc-line is a bit more left of the middle, then the cc-line turns a bit MORE than 90 degrees.

It looks like we know the symptoms of the illnes, but not the cause!

Does anyone have an idea how the position of the cc-line on the track and the way the cc turns are related?

Regards,
Auke

Index

Pit Entry & Exit

Fat Rat from 24.112.113.211:

GP2 automaticlly veres the PS 0 off the track to which ever side is the exit is set to . I haven't checked for the angles for all base tracks , This angle will also change without any change in angle valuse for that one section , If you change the length of any section , or if you later alter the over all pit lengths

It will bulge if you increase the lengths or straighten if you decrease " without changing anything to do with with the pitlane entries or exits .
CU
Les


Bob Culver said the following:

When modifying a track and cleaning up the pit lane, I discovered something (that may not be so novel to some) that I thought would be of interest. The "pit exit" track section creates a void in the verge for the pit sections. If your first pit lane segment is curved, then the next section tends to run over the edge of the "boundary" and part of the track segment disappears. Also, the connected pit wall tends to distort a lot with this condition. I didn't check in detail, but I imagine the same condition exists at the pit exit.

By using a straight first section long enough to allow the void in the verge to angle out away from the track to accept the pit lane, this graphic "bug" is eliminated. The track I am working on is based on Monza, so I don't know if the void is at different angles if other tracks are used for the base.



Index

Palette code

John Basara from 152.163.197.64: bbasara@aol.com

For those out there who don't use a sky texture, here's a palette code to make the sky more realistic looking.

0/124/124/144/144/30/30/64/64

Hope you like it.


Index

Black flags in the pitlane

babbel from 195.193.22.87:

I have no idea if somebody already tried it but it is possible to add blackflags in the pitlane.
The 0xdf and 0xde have to be placed in the first pitlane section, and it works just like it does on the normal track
babbel

Index

CC Unkown 1

Paul Hoad from 194.222.192.203:

All,
Following on from ponk's request for info on what each cc unk does I believe that cc unk1 is the angle relative to the start of the track at which the cc line goes off at, this will obviously effect the way the cc line is drawn and this is one thing not currently catered for but initial experiments seem to point to this, anyone else observed this.
Paul Hoad


Graham D from 194.125.2.232:

wow,
Anyway one thing you mention is why the pit lane parking zone takes the #33 id,
well tht is because the#33 id has the ground markings for pit lanes parking zone.

This doesn't tell us a lot but just to say thats why the road texture isn't used.


Fat Rat from 24.112.113.211:

I'd suggest Martijn to get caught up . The issue is why do some jams act in different ways on different locations ( if # 164 is on a wall ) do you get the gravel sound or the wall sound ,when I hit it.

Why is that on a " verge" do all jams give the sound for grass , " it could be an ad , tarmac , building , tree anything .

Except for # 33 which has no effect on a verge , while # 164 is the only one to produces the gravel trap sfx and not the grass sfx .

Why is # 164 the ONLY JAM where rocks come flying up ?
I donít see chunks of ads or grass thrown up when I drive on them on a verge .

Why does the pitlane road texture always takes the texture ID # 33 and not the road 200 cmd texture .
Once I have the pit walls up I can put anything I want there . But not out side of this .

Try laying a cloudy or transparent fog texture or 2 , between the fences , about 3-8 high off the road surface . then some slight climbs & drops of the track .
While at the same time keeping the ribbons level .
You can pass through it , drop down below it or climb above it .

Instant " GP2 FOG " oooh scary .
I got the Idea when I watched a replay of me sending shuey up & trough the roof of the tunnel on Van
Indy .

THere is a ceiling on the GP2 world too ,it makes a sound when you bounce off it ,

So if I put Texture 164 for the cloud jam , would it rain gravel ?

I have a F18 fight sim , the plane & Cockpit are in pcx files , I am going to see if the palettes & " Textures & GFX " are in any way shape or form usable .
Maybe a little work with the car shape editor & I could fly a F18 round the tracks

CU
Les


SNQQPY.Dog from 194.168.69.206:

Hi Paul

I did this a while ago now. But i know that if you change say dp_road.jam ID to 164, the same as gravel.
Then it behaves exactly like gravel.
I was experimenting with different gravel types but if any ID other than 164 appears it will not behave like gravel.
This only works in combination with the verge location, both have to be incorporated to produce the effect.

I haven't tried all the other ID effects but I am pretty certain the same will be true for these also.

Cheers
David





Jam's that effect driving coniditon( Paul ) " was posted by Martijn from 130.161.124.18:

It seems it is INpossible to change the effects of driving on the road surface, that always works as asphalt, no matter which texture you apply. Quite logical actually, as GP2 was made a F1 simulation, and no dirt-track racing.

So what's left is the trigger of the action connected to the verges, hardcoded in the GP2.exe, pointed to with the TexID, or pointed to specifically in the JAM file.

Ofcourse you can affect the driving on the road by adding some banking commands or some very high-frequency height changes, with short TSs. (eg. TSs of length 1, height -50, 50,-50), or you can altogether remove the road surface by making the roadwidth 1, forcing you to drive the verges.

I would suggest to FatRat to stop driving on the ribbons, as they do not give much support to the car. After all, it's just some thin pieces of wall-paper on an invisible wire-frame! By the way, you just can't cross the fences, and so it's impossible to drive on ribbons.

There are already a lot of people who have tried to make tracks where you have to drive on, or through ribbons, and that never succeeds. These parts of the tracks are then normally reffered to as "scenery error". Just to save you some time.




"Re: Jam's that effect driving coniditon( Paul ) " was posted by Fat Rat from 24.112.113.211:

It's hard coded in the " Location "

With some specific texture # which cause "NO ADVERSE DRIVING CONDITIONS"

i.e put gravel onto ribbon 10 no SOUND CHANGE , you still get skid sfx.

put # 22 on ribbions 8&9 you get bumps & different sfx. Now put # 22 onto ribbon 10 , NO bumps & skid sfx again .

I'll try #164 on a pitlane verge .

So it is not always stored in the JAM structures
Also PAUL
Very important not only driving coniditons but also sfx , I need this info on sound .

But as always there are GP2 exceptions.

Texture 33 onto ribbons 8&9 , no sound change or effect to driving coniditons , Maybe the trackgrip\bumps cmd controls the amount of effects to driving coniditons or one of the unk's

There alot more hard coded info though , as mentioned stuff like the pits road surface out the double check box sections is always # 33 , same thing with the yellow track markings & track marling color values are not interchangable, red in the pits is not red on the track , or yellow .

If I have time I'll see if it's possible to drive upon the walls & ribbons 11,12,13,14,etc. to see if the jams effect the sfx & effect driving coniditons .

The walls have hard coded sfx info . Does not matter what jams you use , the same sounds come up.

I guess I'll try # 164 on a wall , see what it sounds like .

CU
Les
If you think " NEW GFX " improvements makes a huge difference ,.

Try it with " NEW SFX "



Paul Hoad said the following:


All,

As an aside to what is being said about the
verge textures, could someone do an experiement
for me!

We know that some of the textures like the gravel
traps map the car jump around but how is this encoded
are the JAM id number hard coded in the game to produce
different effects or is this somehow encoded into the
additional information in the JAM files!

could someone try taking a JAM file that produces
different effects and try changing the JAM id number
using the Jam Editor! now add this in a as gravel
trap and drive into it! does the car performance
change?

If it does then I suspect that the driving performance
may well be stored in the JAM structures if not
then it must be hardcoded into the game!

if that is the case then there must be some scope
for determining a table of Jam id number against
driving performance.

Jam Id # | Driving Performance


Any one want to try this out for me!

Paul Hoad



"CC-Line Re: Can't wait!! but i see a problem" was posted by Ando from 195.94.90.25:

Hi!

I think it is caused by Monaco. The CC-line has an
angle at the beginning because the s/f straight also
has an angle. You can change that in the Track Config
in the tree. If I am right, one of the unk's define
the angle. Have a look at them. Usually it should be 0
for a straight, I suppose.

CU
Ando.
gp2@webfactory.de

Andrew D said the following:

when editing my Phoenix track, i started the cc-line, the only problem being that for some reason, the
cc-line's first section had to be angled off to the left and then go straight for it to be on the road and not
chris-crossing accross the track. This was based on monaco and the front straight at Phoenix was very
straight. Could this have something to do with the last corner perhaps as it is directly behind the 26th
position on the grid and that is a left hander?

ad

Auke (Ponk) said the following:

Yes, I'm talking about the fortcoming release. Paul mailed that he thinks that it still is difficult to determine
the dfm on every corner, so probably in the release after the next, ....:)
The cc-line (Ponk) was an experiment, which has been dropped. There are better ways to generate an
auto-cc-line. Please check the CCLP (http://www.gp2.com/cc-line)
Cheers,
Auke (Ponk)

Graham D said the following:

In version 1.6.4 I think the Ponk ccline is experimental but I think Auke is talking about 1.6.5 or maybe 1.7.0
in this case.

yunisaz said the following:

Ponk, are you talking about version 1.64?.....as I downloaded this
and the "ponk ccline" does not seem to work, but unsing the normal method
will it appear in the game as it is on the Track in TE?

Graham D said the following:

Sorry if this sounds stupid but does that mean in the next version we can just line the ccline over the track
so we don't have to switch between the game and TE?

Ponk said the following:

You can download an Excel file from the CCLP (http://www.gp2.com/cc-line) which will help you alot with
the radius and length.
But... you can wait some days and download the updated TE, which will (probably!!!!) show the cc-line
right!
Ponk

Wouter Oosterbosch said the following:

Hi, I'm working on my first real track, Racing Ring.
But I can't get CC-line and scenery right, so I need someone to put me on the right way. Mail me if you like,
please.



"Re: My Ultimate track loads now!! " was posted by Phil Paterson from 203.38.166.67:

Oooohh....That champagne is tasting bitter....

Martijn said the following:

WARNING

-----------------------------------------------------------
This message is encouraging and demotivating at the same time
-------------------------------------------------------------

I solved the problem with the track. Like I said, I restaerted from a previous version, and inserted again some more
0xB8s and 0xAFs. Then I decided to try the track first, and it crashed. Then I removed some scenery-pairs from
different locations around the track, and [surprise] the track worked again! So there seems to be a limit to the
number of scenery-commands, around 110. That's encouraging.

Now, what's demotivating is that
1) there seems to be a limit to everything! (I think aroung 190 0xBCs, Addie!!)
2) you'll have to compromise on everything!

Note that there are around 108 0xB8s on the Spa track, and 103 on Monaco (haven't check others). Now, what
we have gotten so far, is that some of the original tracks are right on the limits we have discorvered so far (also
tracklength).

Thus, I make a wild guess that the limits are somehow build in the Exe, to prevent hackers and criminals ala Paul
Hoad to do anything silly to the game. And thus, the limits are, if you want, made to meet the demands of the
track, instead of the other way around. That makes it possible to predict some other limits as well (which is
encouraging), for instance regarding objects. From this I conclude it's possible to alter the limits by hacking the
GP2.exe.

From this you may conclude anything about ME you deem appropriate... :-)

Bye!
Martijn Keizer


Martijn said the following:

Yes, there ARE a lot of scenery cmds, sometimes 12 in one TS! (Casino). I didn't invent them, I just copied! :-)

But I worked on the Becketts part last, just adding and changing the 0xB8s and 0xAFs, nothing special. I will
revert to a previous version, not too many damage time-wise. Just an hour or two.

The 0x92 was in the original Brazil track, remember we edited that one, so the objects and some unknown
commands are still in there. No need to remove, as long as it doesn't interfere. Same thing is for most other
unknown cmds too.

The 0xB0 is still labeled unknown in the TE but is very well known by now, and very handy, so I inserted it often.
Some other cmds are likewise.

Martijn


Paul Hoad said the following:

Well looking at the track I can't see anything but I would like to know why the track has some commands in that are unknown
i.e 0x92 who added this in and why? (i.e. what did it give you!)
also there are a lot of scenery commands! 121 0xb8's
what was the last thing added that stop it from working

Paul Hoad


Martijn said the following:

I just had a problem with the Ultimate Track, it didn't freeze but made GP2 crash altogether, returning to whatever operating system you are using.
The changes between the last-checked version and the crashy one only consisted of adding some scenery-commands (surprise!!).
So maybe there is alimit to the number of these commands also, although doubt it, as original tracks had a lot more commands.
BTW The track doesn't crash AFTER the "please wait" screen appear, but immediately after selecting the track and clicking OK.
Any suggestions?
Martijn



Paul Hoad said the following:

I'd also like to add possible checks into the Sanity Check that could help out on these areas.

Paul Hoad


addie said the following:

reasons for the freeze could be:
-track+pitlane too long ( about 1500 units)
-too many curved sectors in cc-line+pit lane ( about 60-70)
-missing cmds (try sanity check in TE)

and probably others i dont remember in that very moment

i hope it helps
(maybe we could collect here and now all known reasons that can cause gp2 to freeze when trying to load a track ?
so i could include the list in the next update of "the guide to track editing")


Avatar said the following:

About the CC-line: at the moment the line isn't showing right in the track editor and I think you've done the CC-line without testing, just drawing it in the editor to fit exactly were it has to be. But if you look at the original tracks, you'll see that in the editor their CC-lines are not right, but in the game -
very good (not perfect, need updates ;-).
If you want to do a good line, try this URL:

http://www.gp2.com/cc-line/

About the track not loading: I don't know what may the problem be, but when you're doing a track, I think it's good to test it after every change you made.
In both practise and qualyfing. Just for sure ;-)

Regards.
-Avatar-


Jamie Clark said the following:

Can anybody help me? I've made what I think should be a good track, but when I try to run it in GP2 it won't load.
I get: 'Please Wait', and it freezes. Also, the CC-Line is a complete cock-up. Cars decide to drive through the armco, and then after going along the grass, hit the armco. Why?
And if anyone can help me with adding scenery and my own .jam files, I will be most grateful.